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Special | 26m 13s | Video has closed captioning.
SCOTUS, Trump & Pope: We take a look at important issues for women surrounding the presidential race. Football, Alcohol & Rape: Is there a connection between campus party culture and sexual assault? Curvology: One anatomist's surprising and controversial explanation behind women's unique bodies. PANEL: Rina Shah Bharara, Ashe Schow, Zoe Carpenter, Avis Jones-DeWeever
Aired: 02/19/16
THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST, WOMEN, THE POPE AND POLITICS AND THE SUPREME COURT.
THEN, FOOTBALL, BINGE DRINKING, AND RAPE.
BEHIND THE HEADLINES: A CAMBRIDGE ANATOMIST'S CONTROVERSIAL EXPLANATION FOR WOMEN'S DISTINCT BODY SHAPE.
[♪♪♪] HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.
WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.
UP FIRST, THIS WEEK'S NEWS AFFECTING WOMEN, THE SUPREME COURT AND THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.
WHO WILL REPLACE THE LATE JUSTICE ANTONIN SCALIA ON THE SUPREME COURT?
AND WHO WILL MAKE THE APPOINTMENT?
HOW WILL THE COURT DECIDE PIVOTAL CASES THIS TERM, AFFECTING ABORTION RIGHTS AND DIVERSE COMMUNITIES?
US COURT OF APPEALS JUDGE SRI SRINIVASAN IS SEEN AS A LIKELY CANDIDATE AS IS U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL LORETTA LYNCH, AMONG OTHERS.
IN OTHER NEWS, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL FRONT-RUNNER DONALD TRUMP AND POPE FRANCIS GOT INTO IT THIS WEEK, WITH THE POPE SAYING TRUMP ISN'T CHRISTIAN BECAUSE HE WANTS TO BUILD A WALL AT THE US'S SOUTHERN BORDER TO KEEP OUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
TRUMP SHOT BACK THE POPE'S WAS "DISGRACEFUL" TO QUESTION HIS FAITH.
SO, Dr. JONES WHEN YOU STOP LAUGHING CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME ARE WOMEN MORE LIKELY TO SIDE WITH THE POPE OR TRUMP?
>> I HAVE TO THINK Mr. TWO CORINTHIANS, I THINK WE DECIDE WITH THE POPE.
>> YOU HAVE TO SEE WHAT PART OF THE COUNTRY THE WOMEN YOU ARE ASKING.
IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE COUNTRY IT WILL BE TRUMP.
>> I THINK IT DEPENDS WHAT THEIR PRYOR PERSPECTIVE WAS.
>> AS WE HAVE SEEN WITH TRUMP TIME AND TIME AGAIN ANYTIME WE THINK SOMETHING IS GOING TO DAMAGE HIM IT HELPS HIM.
IT DEPENDS WHAT WOMAN WE ARE ASKING.
>> IF IT IS THE EVANGELICALS WHO DO NOT SEE THE POPE AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN A RELIGIOUS LEADER IN A DIFFERENT RELIGION AND NOT THEIR RELIGIOUS LEADER THEY ARE GOING TO SAY TRUMP WAS RIGHT TO CALL HIM OUT, RIGHT?
>> I LOOK I THINK WE SHOULD PULLBACK AND TALK ABOUT HOW BIZARRE THIS IS.
THE EPITOMY HOW BIZARRE THIS PRIMARY RACE HAS BEEN IN GENERAL WHERE ARE WE GOING?
I GOT THE E-MAIL SAYING IS THIS A BY-LINE FROM DR. SEUSS?
TRUMP AGAINST THE PONTIFF?
IT'S REALLY CRAZY IT'S GOTTEN TO THIS POINT.
>> BUT HE IS GOING TO WIN THE NOMINATION.
>> MAYBE HE WILL, MAYBE HE WON'T.
>> I CANNOT SEE THE WAY, FRANK SAID WHEN THIS FIRST STARTED BREAKING OUT, IN THE FALL, RESPECTED REPUBLICAN POLLSTER, HE'S GOT THE NOMINATION.
AND I HAVE BEEN WATCHING AND SAYING NO, NO, NO AND FINALLY, YES, YES, YES.
>> AND I AGREE WITH FRANK I THINK FRANK IS RIGHT AND WE KNOW THE INEVITABLE IS NEAR AND WHAT IS THE RNC GOING TO DO?
I THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM ON OUR HANDS.
AND WE HAVE A PROBLEM BECAUSE THIS GUY, IF YOU SAY SOMETHING GOOD HE IS YOUR FRIEND AND SLIGHTLY NEGATIVE HE IS GOING TO COME AT YOU HARDER.
THE FACT WE HAVE THIS CARTOON CHARACTER WHO IS ABOUT TO WIN THE NOMINATION FOR OUR PARTY WE ARE REALLY SEARCHING AND GRABBING FOR ANSWERS RIGHT NOW.
>> BUT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IS THE DRAW.
MAYBE YOU CAN EXPLAIN IT TO ME, THE DRAW BETWEEN -- >> THE DRAW IS ANGER.
>> AND EVANGELICALS AND TRUMP.
BECAUSE THERE IS REALLY NO INDICATION THERE, I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS PERSON BUTFY WAS A CHRISTIAN, I WOULD LOOK AND SAY HE TRIES TO QUOTE THE BIBLE HE MISQUOTED THE BIBLE SEVERAL TIMES.
HOW MANY TIMES HAS HE BEEN MARRIED?
AND CHEATED ON THE WIVES?
THERE IS NO INDICATION IN HIS BACKGROUND THAT HE LIVES CHRISTIAN VALUES.
SO WHAT IS THE DRAW BETWEEN HIM AND EVANGELICALS?
>> IT'S THE DRAW FOR ANYBODY ELSE AND IT'S NOT A DRAW THAT I AGREE WITH OR THAT I SEE BUT IT'S JUST HE SAYS ONE THING THAT THEY AGREE WITH AND IT MIGHT NOT HAVE TO DO WITH RELIGION AT ALL.
BUT ONCE HE SAYS THAT RIGHT THING IT SEEMS TO BE HE HAS A SUPPORTER FOR LIFE AND HE CAN DO ANYTHING AND SAY ANYTHING AND THEY WILL STAY WITH HIM.
SO I DO NOT SEE AS YOU SAID, I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING THAT SHOWS HIM AS BEING CHRISTIAN.
I DO NOT BELIEVE HE IS PRO-LIFE OR REALLY PRO-LIFE WHETHER HE SAYS SO OR NOT.
I AM NOT SEEING THE CHRISTIAN DRAW.
BUT I THINK IT IS HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE BORDER AND IMMIGRATION AND THEN HE'S GOT THEM WHEN THE OTHER CANDIDATES HAVE NOT TOUCHED ON THE ISSUE.
>> ISN'T THE DRAW, EMBLEMATIC OF THE FACT THAT CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN WOMEN ARE A POLITICAL FORCE AND THEY THINK DIFFERENTLY FROM PROGRESSIVE REPUBLICAN WOMEN OR PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATIC WOMEN OR PROGRESSIVE INDEPENDENT WOMEN.
>> THAT IS A VOTING BLOCK THAT I DON'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT.
I AM NOT PERMANENTLY FAMILIAR WITH IT.
IT'S NOT PART OF THE CULTURE THAT I COME FROM.
I THINK WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT TRUMP IS THAT IF YOU WANT TO WONDER WHY HIS SORT OF NON-CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES ARE THE ATTRACTION IS POLICY POSITIONS ARE NOT THAT FAR OFF OF MANY OF THE CANDIDATES THEY ARE ALL EXTREME.
SO IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SUPPORT FOR THE POOR OR SUPPORT FOR REFUGEES EVERYONE WANTS TO BUILD A WALL IF THAT IS THE STAND ARKED WHETHER WE ARE JUDGING WHETHER HE IS CHRISTIAN OR NOT, OTHERS ARE NOT MEETING THAT STANDARD EITHER.
>> AVIS, THE SUPREME COURT ANY CHANCE PRESIDENT OBAMA WILL PICK AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN THIS TIME AND LORETTA LYNCH AND COULD SEE CONFIRMED AS ATTORNEY GENERAL COULD SHE GET PAST THE SENATE AGAIN?
>> WE ARE PUSHING FOR A WOMAN TO BE APPOINTED.
AND IT WOULD BE THE MOST DIFFICULT CHOICE TO NOW TURN AROUND AND SAY NO.
>> ON THE -- [INAUDIBLE] HOW OFTEN IS THAT FOR US THIS TINY POPULATION TO SEE A GUY COMING FROM THE DC CIRCUIT.
>> WOULD HE GET THROUGH THE SENATE?
>> PROBABLY NOT, NO.
OF COURSE NOT.
BECAUSE WE SEE WHAT SENATOR HATCH SAID I WILL NOT LET THESE PEOPLE THROUGH.
I THINK OR RIN HATCH MIGHT BE A GOOD CANDIDATE.
>> HE IS 82 YEARS OLD.
>> HE WILL LIVE ANOTHER 20 YEARS.
I LOVE THAT GUY.
>> NO, I THINK I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THIS YEAR.
IT'S BECOME SO TOXIC ALREADY JUST I THINK OBAMA WILL NOMINATE SOMEBODY AND THE SENATE WILL HOLD UNTIL THE NEXT PRESIDENT GETS ELECTED.
>> SENATOR THE CHAIR OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE GRASSLEY SAID THAT HE WAS OPEN TO HOLDING HEARINGS.
>> THAT IS HIS CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY TO DO SO.
>> THE PRESIDENT GETS TO NOMINATE AND THE SENATE GETS TO ADVICE AND CONSENT ON THE NOMINATION.
I THINK ONE CONSIDERATION FOR THE ADMINISTRATION IT HAS TO BE SOME BUN THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO HAVE REJECTED AND THAT PERSON WOULD NOT GET A SECOND CHANCE UNDER PRESIDENT HILLARY CLINTON OR BERNIE SANDERS IF IT WERE A DEMOCRAT TO BE PUT FORWARD AGAIN.
SO THEY PROBABLY WILL NOT PUT FORWARD SOMEONE WHO THEY ARE HOPING WOULD REPLACE RUTH BADER GINSBURG.
>> IT WOULD BE A SMART POLITICAL MOVE FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION TO PUT FORTH A BLACK WOMAN.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE VOTING POWER OF THAT BLOCK, BLACK WOMEN ARE THE NUMBER ONE VOTERS TO TURNOUT AT THE POLLS.
>> DO BLACK WOMEN FEEL UPSET THAT HE SUCCESSFULLY NOMINATED A LATINA AND A WHITE WOMAN BEFORE THEM?
>> WE ARE SAYING IT'S TIME AND WE HAVE EXPECTATIONS.
AND IT WOULD BE A GOOD POLITICAL MOVE ON HIS PART BECAUSE IF THE SENATE WERE STUPID ENOUGH TO SAY NO TO A BLACK WOMAN, GUESS WHO THEY ENERGIZED FOR THE ELECTIONS.
>> THAT IS SMART.
AND THAT IS A GOOD POINT YOU HAVE TO PUT SOMEBODY UP THAT IS WILLING TO BE REJECTED.
HE WILL HAVE A PRO WITH THE PRO ENVIRONMENTALISTS.
>> WHY PUT SOME UP SOMEONE THAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH BEING REJECTED.
YOU HAVE TO PICK SOMEBODY SO PERFECT FOR THE JOB AND NO TRACK RECORD ON THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT AND OF COLOR, AND PREFERABLELY A WOMAN SO THAT THEY CAN SAY TO REPUBLICANS LOOK WE HAVE THIS GREAT NOMINEE, AND THEY REJECTED HER?
>> AND YOU ARE STANDING IN THE WAY OF PROGRESS THAT IS AN EFFECTIVE ARGUMENT.
>> BUT DO YOU THINK IT'S FUNNY I LOOK AT MOST PARTISAN DEBATES AND COVER CONGRESS FOR SIX YEARS AND COVERED THE COURT FOR 9 YEARS IN THE 90s, AND THIS ONE, I REALLY SEE USUALLY I'M SAYING THIS PARTY IS WRONG OR THAT PARTY IS WRONG AND IN THIS ONE THEY ARE BOTH WRONG.
WHOEVER IS IN CONTROL OF THE WHITE HOUSE WANTS TO NOMINATE IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR AND WHOEVER IS IN CONTROL OF CONGRESS WANTS TO FILIBUSTER THAT IF THEY ARE A DIFFERENT PARTY.
PRESIDENT OBAMA HIMSELF FILIBUSTERED A NOMINEE WHEN -- >> ABSOLUTELY.
EVERYBODY IS A HYPOCRIT RIGHT NOW.
CHUCK SHUCKER BACK IN 2007 SAYING WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE ELECTION AND NOW HE IS SAYING NO, DON'T USE MY WORDS AGAINST ME.
THIS IS A DIFFERENT TIME.
>> YOU ARE SAYING EVERY DEMOCRAT.
>> IT'S REPUBLICANS ABSOLUTELY OR THEY WANTED A NOMINEE IN 2007 AND NOW THEY WANT TO HOLD OFF.
EVERYONE IS A HYPOCRIT.
>> PEOPLE ARE NOTICING THAT MITCH McCONNELL SAID HIS NUMBER ONE GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS A ONE-TERM PRESIDENT WE HAVE SEEN AN AGENDA OF OBSTRUCTION FOR 10 YEARS AND THIS IS THE CHERRY ON TOP.
>> THAT DOES MAKE IT DIFFERENT.
>> FOR SURE.
AND THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THE REPUBLICANS HAVE IS THAT DEMOCRATS ARE PUSHING BACK ON SHOULD THIS NEWLY ELECTED PRESIDENT THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO APPOINT THIS PERSON AND THE ANSWER IS YES.
>> ALL RIGHT.
LAST WORD.
>> THAT ASSERTS THAT OUR PRESIDENT THAT WE ELECTED FOR A FOUR-YEAR TERM SHOULD ONLY SERVE THREE YEARS SHOULD HE NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE?
>> WHEN IS THE CUTOFF NOW YOU CAN NOMINATE BUT YOU HAVE A YEAR LEFT AND NOW YOU CAN'T.
>> IF REAGAN DID IT OBAMA SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT.
LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.
PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.
FROM THE SUPREME COURT TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL AND SEXUAL ASSAULT.
IS THERE A CONNECTION BETWEEN COLLEGE FOOTBALL, BINGE DRINKING AND RAPE?
A NEW STUDY, COLLEGE PARTY CULTURE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT, SUGGESTS THERE IS A LINK.
RESEARCHERS ANALYZED 21 YEARS OF DATA FROM CAMPUS AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SERVING 96 COLLEGES WITH DIVISION 1 FOOTBALL.
THEY FOUND "SIGNIFICANT AND ROBUST EVIDENCE THAT FOOTBALL GAME DAYS INCREASE REPORTS OF RAPE VICTIMIZATION AMONG 17-24 YEAR OLD WOMEN BY 28 PERCENT."
FOR HOME GAMES IT WAS A 41-PERCENT INCREASE, FOR AWAY GAMES 15 PERCENT.
THE PAPER SUGGESTS COLLEGES CONSIDER THESE RESULTS WHEN DESIGNING THEIR SEXUAL ASSAULT PREVENTION PROGRAMS.
SO HOW IS IT THAT WHEN THEY DESIGN SEXUAL ASSAULT PREVENTION PROGRAMS THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO INCLUDE THIS INFORMATION.
WHY NOT BAR PARTIES ON SATURDAY NIGHT BEFORE GAMES OR YOU KNOW, MONITOR SCREEN ALL THE LIQUOR OR THE DRINKS THAT ARE GIVEN OUT AT THE PARTIES?
>> THAT IS UNREALISTIC WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIX THAT BUT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE STUDY WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A 41% INCREASE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A BIG NUMBER.
IS THAT FROM 25 REPORTS TO 35?
NO IT'S LESS THAN ONE REPORT TO LESS THAN ONE REPORT.
IT'S NOT HUGE NUMBERS OF INCREASES.
IT'S JUST THE SCARY NUMBER AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE REPORTS THEY ARE NOT SAYING WHAT THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF REPORTS ARE THEY ARE SAYING THIS BIG INCREASE IN ORDER TO SCARE PEOPLE AND MAKE IT SEEM LIKE MORE OF AN EPIDEMIC THAN IT IS.
>> YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE NOT SAYING THE NUMBER HOW CAN YOU SAY?
>> BECAUSE I TALKED TO THE STUDY'S AUTHOR?
>> HOW DO YOU GO FROM LESS TO ONE AND LESS THAN ONE TO 40%.
>> IF IT'S .05% TO .06%, IT IS A 40% INCREASE.
BUT IT'S STILL NOT AN ACTUAL INCREASE IN THE NUMBER -- BECAUSE IT IS AN AVERAGE THING, RIGHT?
>> THE AUTHORS DID DO CALCULATIONS WHICH ARE CALCULATIONS BASED UPON THE NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE THEY ESTIMATE TO DO WOULD BE SEVERAL HUNDRED MORE RAPES AND SEXUAL ASSAULTS A YEAR.
NUMBERS ASIDE, THAT AVOIDS TALKING ABOUT THE REAL ISSUE IT DOES HAPPEN EVEN IF REPORT SOMETHING DIFFICULT TO COME BY IN TERMS OF EXACT NUMBERS AND THE QUESTION IS HOW ARE WE GOING TO IMPROVE THE SUPPORT SYSTEMS FOR VICTIMS?
OR PEOPLE WHO -- >> ISN'T THE REAL QUESTION HOW DO WE STOP THIS?
>> LOOKING AT THE ALCOHOL SITUATION.
>> YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ALCOHOL SITUATION AND THE WAY THIS COUNTRY TALKS ABOUT SEX WE DON'T LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SEX.
>> WE DON'T LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IT BUT WE ARE SO MUCH MORE HYPER SEXUALIZED CULTURE THAN WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE.
IT IS AMAZING TO ME.
THIS KIND OF STUFF WAS NOT GOING ON.
AND YOUNG WOMEN WERE USING DRUGS THEY WERE USING ALCOHOL BUT THERE WAS NOT THIS -- THERE DID NOT SEEM TO BE AND CERTAINLY THE DATA WEREN'T THERE SO WE CANNOT COMPARE ON A SCIENTIFIC BASIS BUT THERE WEREN'T FRAT PARTIES WERE LIMITED TO THE SOUTH.
THEY WERE NOT GOING ON IN THE NORTH OR THE WEST.
AND OR AT LEAST TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE TODAY.
AND THERE WASN'T AS MUCH DRINKING AND THERE WASN'T AS MUCH SPIKING OF DRINKS.
>> WELL, I THINK YOU MAKE FAIR POINTS ABOUT THE ANTI-UP EVERY GENERATION AND SOMEBODY AHEAD OF A MAJOR GREEK ORGANIZATIONAL SYSTEM AT A STATE SCHOOL I DO NOT THINK THE PROBLEMS LIE WITHIN OUR FRATERNITIES.
THE PROBLEM LIES HOW WE ARE REARING CHILDREN IN TODAY'S SOCIETY.
WE ARE NOT TEACHING YOUNG BOYS TO RESPECT WOMEN AND RESPECT SEX AND THAT IS WHERE THE ISSUE IS.
WE NEED TO TEACH OUR YOUNG MEN NOT TO RAPE.
AND WE NEED TO STOP TALKING ABOUT WOMEN PUTTING THEMSELVES OUT THERE IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY ARE ASKING TO BE RAPED BUT WE OUGHT TO SHIFT THAT CONVERSATION TO BOYS AND THE BOYS GROWING INTO YOUNG MEN AND GROWING INTO COLLEGE AND EXPERIENCING THE FREEDOMS, IS KIND OF DOESN'T MATTER.
>> I AM A LITTLE CONFUSED.
>> WOMEN ARE NOT EVER ASKING TO BE RAPED.
>> THEY ARE NEVER ASKING FOR IT.
>> BUT I WANT TO CLARIFY, YOU NEED TO TEACH A BOY NOT TO RAPE.
IF YOU RAISE THAT CHILD TO RESPECT WOMEN AS MUCH AS THE DAUGHTER RESPECTS MEN, WHY DO YOU HAVE TO TEACH THEM NOT -- >> BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN SOCIETY IS HYPER SEXUALIZING THEM.
YOU ARE NOT A WOMAN IF YOU ARE NOT FLAUNTING WHAT YOU HAVE.
SO I THINK THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW WOMEN PROTECT THEMSELVES AND HOW MEN DON'T RAPE HAVE BEEN SO CONVOLUTED AND CRAZY THAT WE ARE GRABBING FOR ANSWERS IN STATISTICS.
>> DID YOU HAVE TO TEACH HIM NOT TO RAPE A WOMAN?
>> WELL, NO, NOT NECESSARILY IN THAT WAY BUT I AGREE.
YOU TEACH YOUNG MEN HOW TO APPROACH WOMEN WITH RESPECT AND TEACH THEM ABOUT WHAT YOU CONVERSATIONS AROUND NO.
WHAT I'M DISTURBED ABOUT IS THAT WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY EXAMPLES WITH VIDEO CAMERAS AND CELLPHONES OF YOUNG MEN TAKING ADVANTAGE OF YOUNG WOMEN NOT ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND TAPING IT LIKE IT IS A JOKE.
THAT IS RAPE.
AND FOR SOME REASON A LOT OF TIMES BOYS DO NOT SEE THAT AS RAPE.
HAVING THOSE DISCUSSIONS WITH YOUNG MEN ARE IMPORTANT AND I HAVE HAD THOSE DISCUSSIONS WITH MY SONS YOU NEED TO HEAR A YES, NOT JUST THE LACK OF NO.
THAT IS IMPORTANT.
>> AND THE ANSWER IS ALWAYS OH, THAT GIRL SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN WEARING THAT SHORT DRESS SHE IS PUTTING HERSELF OUT AND SHE IS OPEN TO IT, NO.
THE ANSWER IS TELLING YOUR SON, YOU DO NOT USE TECHNOLOGY TO VIOLATE A WOMAN'S RIGHT THAT IS DISRESPECTFUL.
THAT IS MY ISSUE WHERE THINGS HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST 10 TO 20 YEARS.
>> WHERE THEY ARE NOW IS THAT THE BROADENING OF THE DEFINITION OF SEXUAL ASSAULT INCLUDES ANYTHING.
AND SO WE ARE GETTING TO THIS POINT NOW WHERE A MAN CAN COMPLETELY RESPECT A WOMAN AND STILL GET ACCUSED.
THERE WAS A CASE AT GEORGIA TECH WHERE A YOUNG MAN, A WOMAN WAS TOO DRUNK TO GET HER HOME ON HER OWN.
AND SHE WAS LOCKED OUT AND WAITING FOR HER ROOMMATE SO THE YOUNG MAN SAID SIT ON MY COUCH AND STAY HERE WHERE IT'S SAFE WHERE YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE OUTSIDE IN THE COLD ALONE.
AND HE GETS ACCUSED OF BEING INTIMIDATING AND INVOLUNTARYLY IMPRISONING HER AND GETS EXPELLED FROM SCHOOL.
AND THE SCHOOL TOLD HIM THE BEST THING WOULD HAVE BEEN TO PUT HER IN A CAB WITH A STRANGER TO GO SIT ON HER STEP.
YOU HAVE THE CASES WHERE MEN ARE RESPECTING WOMEN AND STILL BEING ACCUSED BECAUSE THE CULTURE HAS NOW BECOME THE POINT WHERE EVERYTHING CAN BECOME A SEXUAL ASSAULT ACUATION.
>> I WANT TO HEAR YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT.
>> I DON'T KNOW THE SPECIFICS OF THAT CASE.
WE HAVE THE NARRATIVES ABOUT RAPE THAT ARE UNHELPFUL BECAUSE THEY PUT FORWARD RAPE THAT IS VIOLENT AND PERPETRATED BY A STRANGER.
WHAT IS BECOMING DIFFICULT NOW WE HAVE THE CASES WHERE PEOPLE THAT YOU KNOW WELL OR THROUGH A SOCIAL CIRCLE IN A COLLEGE SETTING FOR EXAMPLE AND THE SCENARIOS WHERE THE DEFINITION OF SEXUAL ASSAULTS OR RAPE THAT WE HAVE USED IN THE POPULAR NARRATIVES DO NOT MATCHUP WITH THE REAL-LIFE SCENARIOS THAT IS WHY IT BECOMES COMPLICATED.
THESE ARE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUES BUT THE CLEAR LINES OF THE LAW DO NOT ALWAYS FIT THE REAL-LIFE SITUATION.
>> OR MAYBE THE LAWS ARE NOT THAT CLEAR.
BEHIND THE HEADLINES: FEMALE CURVES SHAPE A LARGE PART OF AMERICAN CULTURE.
HUMANS ARE THE ONLY FEMALE ANIMALS WITH CURVES.
WE SPOKE WITH AN ANATOMIST WHO TELLS US THE SCIENTIFIC AND CONTROVERSIAL IMPLICATIONS OF THESE SINGULAR FEATURES OF WOMEN'S BODIES.
WHY IS IS IT ONLY HUMANS WHERE FEMALES HAVE SO MUCH MORE FAT THAN MEN DO TO MAKE THAT SHAPE.
>> DAVID IS AN ANATOMIST FROM CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY AND STUDIED ABOUT WHAT HE CALLS CURVOLOGY THE SCIENCE OF WOMEN'S CURVES.
WOMEN'S BODIES ON AVERAGE ARE 27% FATTY TISSUE AND MEN'S ARE 14%.
MOST IS STORED IN THEDERRIER AND THIGHS WHICH GIVE WOMEN A CURVEVIER SHAPE.
>> YOU SEE A DIFFERENT BUT THEY ARE NOT CONSIDERED FAT.
>> WHAT DO WOMEN HAVE CURVES?
FAT STORED IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THEIR BODIES.
>> ENORMOUS BRAINS THE FEATURE OF HUMANS AND MOST OF THE WEIGHT OF A BRAIN APART FROM WATER IS FAT.
AND SO WE NOW THINK THE RESERVED AS FAT TO MAKE BABY BRAINS.
THE FAT CAN SIT THERE FOR YEARS AND YEAR, STUBBORNLY AND SUDDENLY THEY ARE MOBILIZED WHEN WOMEN GIVE BIRTH.
>> THE THEORY IS SUPPORTED BY OTHER STUDIES.
>> THERE SEEM TO BE A CORRELATION OF THE FAT IN THE PARTICULAR AREAS IN A WOMAN AND THE IQ OF HER CHILDREN.
NOW, ALL OF THE THINGS ARE AVERAGES EVERYTHING IS AVERAGES.
SO IT MEANS THAT THERE IS A CORRELATION BETWEEN THE TWO.
>> BANE BRIDGE HIGH THOGHT SIZES MEN MAYBE ATTRACTED TO CURVEY BODY SHAPES FOR THAT WOMEN.
>> MEN PREFER WOMEN ARE THE CURVES FOR THEIR BABIES TO BE MORE SUCCESSFUL AND BY THE RELENTING MATHEMATICS OF EVOLUTION THEIR GENES GET PASSED ON.
>> YET BODY FAT CAN LEAD WOMEN TO DEVELOP SELF ESTEEM ISSUES.
80% OF WOMEN REPORTED FEELING BADLY LOOKING IN THE MIRROR DESPITE OUR OBSESSION WITH CURVES WOMEN ARE PRESSURED TO BE THIN.
HE SAYS THE CULT OF THINNESS IS A PRODUCT OF MODERN SOCIETY WHILE PREFERENCE FOR CURVES MIGHT BE MORE DEEPLY ENGRAINED.
>> IT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO SEPARATE THE AGAIN PARTICULAR PART FROM CULTURAL BECAUSE THEY INTERACT.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT MALE PREFERENCES IN FEMALE BODY SHAPE, THE PREFERENCE FOR THE BROAD HIPS AND THE NARROW WAIST THAT IS CONSISTENT ALL AROUND THE WORLD WHICH SUGGESTS MAYBE THAT IS IS A GENETIC THING.
>> SOME WOMEN CRITICIZED THE BOOK FOR THE SCIENTIFIC TONE.
>> SOME PEOPLE FEEL UNEASE LIKE ISSUES LIKE FEMALE BODY SHAPE BEING ANALYZED IN A SCIENTIFIC, BIOLOGICAL WAY.
WE HAVE A SOCIETY THAT IS OBSESSED WITH WOMEN'S BODY SHAPE AND YOU LOOK AT THE CULTURE YOU ARE MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING THAT IS HELPING US UNDERSTAND WHY WE ARE THE WAY WE ARE.
>> IS IT SEXIST TO HAVE DOPE A BOOK ABOUT WOMEN'S BODY SHAPE?
>> NO, THIS IS INTRIGUING MATERIAL.
I THINK IT'S RIDICULOUS THAT SOME OF THE FEMINISTS TO CALL THIS OUT AND SAY THIS IS THE TONE IS WRONG.
IT'S FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
LET'S TAKE IT AS THAT.
WHAT I TOO FIND A PROBLEM WITH SAYING GLAMOUR MAGAZINE SAYING 80% OF THE PEOPLE HAVE A PROBLEM, AND GLAMOUR YOU ARE THE REASON FOR THAT.
AS SOMEONE WHO GREW UP WITH CURVES AND NOW AFTER HAVING A CHILD THE NEW STRUGGLE IT IS THE SOCIEITAL EXPECTATIONS OF HAVING TO BE THIN RIGHT AWAY AND RAIL THIN.
AND THESE MAGAZINES PUSHED THAT FORWARD.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE OBJECTING TO WHICH I WILL SAY I HAVE NOT READ, HE STATES THAT WOMEN'S APPEARANCES IS THEIR CENTRAL CONCERN AND I THINK THAT -- WHILE IT IS TRUE THERE ARE SO MANY PRESSURES THAT ARE MAKING US THINK ABOUT OUR BODIES A LOT, I THINK THAT IS A REDUCK ACTIVE WAY TO LOOK AT WOMEN'S CONCERNS.
MOST WOMEN ARE THINKING HOW THEY ARE GOING TO SURVIVE DAY-TO-DAY AND FEED THEIR FAMILIES AND IF THEY ARE ELITE HOW THEY ARE GOING TO PURSUE THEIR PROFESSIONAL DREAMS.
>> STILL, I MEAN, IT'S ALL AROUND YOU.
YES, YOU -- I WAS THAT WAY IN MY 20s CERTAINLY MORE ACADEMIC THAN WORRYING ABOUT CULTURAL STUFF.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND YOU SEE KIM KARDASHIAN MAYBE IT HELPS WITH THE TINY WAIST AND OLLIE HUGE REAR DOES IT EXPLAIN WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?
>> I THINK PART OF IT DOES.
WE ARE LOOKING AT WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW AS A SOCIETY WHERE WE MIGHT BE THINKING ABOUT IT IN A WAY THAT IT'S THE DIFFERENT PROPORTIONS HOW THEY CAN CARRY CHILDREN BUT YOU ALSO AT CULTURES AND SOCIETIES THROUGHOUT HISTORY.
REMEMBER WE KNOW THE STORY IN ROMAN TIMES WHEN A PLUMPER WOMAN WAS MORE DESIRED BECAUSE SHE HAD MONEY.
THERE IS A SOCIEITAL IMPLICATION TO WOMEN BEING THIN BUT UNDER EVERYTHING MAYBE IT IS BIOLOGICAL.
I AGREE THAT THIS BOOK IS ONE ASPECT AND FEMINISTS ARE FREE TO DO THEIR OWN BOOKS WHICH THEY HAVE ABOUT THE SOCIEITAL IMPLICATIONS AND THIS IS JUST ANOTHER VOICE AND PERSPECTIVE AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
>> I THINK CULTURALLY SPEAKING BLACK WOMEN KNOW ABOUT HAVING CURVEYER ABOUT THE TOMORROWS.
>> DOES -- BUT TOMORROWS.
BOTTOM.
>> AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.
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